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OIL and ZDDP - FLAT TAPPET ENGINES [INFO]

Various Yamaha Virago Chit-Chat

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ViragoJoe
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What Virago you Own: 1996 Virago Special XV1100SH
"Never ride faster than your Guardian Angel can fly!!"

OIL and ZDDP - FLAT TAPPET ENGINES [INFO]

Post by ViragoJoe » Fri Sep 23, 2016 11:16 am

Caution: If You Have An Older Vehicle, Choose Your Oil Carefully.

Oil discussions can open up a real can of worms. This is just information for you to ponder and assist you when making a decision on what oil you purchase.

Understand the choice is yours to make and yours alone.


In doing some research, I have discovered the following:

Back in the day when gasoline was leaded and 20W40 type SG oil was available and contained ZDDP an anti-wear additive. Well, things have changed. ZDDP has been either reduced and/or removed totally from current oils for catalytic converters don't like the taste of it. In other word, it is harmful to the converters. Virago's used this 20W40 type SG oil which, unfortunately, has become obsolete in today's oil standards.

Since our engines are flat tappet. This is worth knowing regarding 15W40 oil.

Flat tappet #9 in picture:
To Enlarge Click Picture.
FLAT TAPPET - VIRAGO.jpg
The link below references Shell's Rotella 15W40.
https://www.motorists.org/blog/warning- ... carefully/

Going to do some research on other brands of 15W40 oil. They too should be providing the same 1200 parts per million of ZDDP.

Yup, WALMART'S 15W40, they are in the 1200 ppm range:
http://www.pqiamerica.com/May%202013/supertech.htm

Should your oil not contain ZDDP. You can use this to spice it up:
http://www.eastwood.com/ew-zddp-oil-additive-4-oz.html
or purchase STP at a lower price point:
http://www.stp.com/products/oil-additives/oil-treatment

Hope, this helps you out in regard to 15W40 oil. This information isn't to endorse any product listed. Just to state what I have found. You are welcome to do your own research.

Heavy Duty Oils:
1. Castrol RX Super 15w40
2. Chevron Delo 400 15w40
3. Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15w40
4. Pennzoil Long-Life 15w40
5. Quaker State 4X4 Synthetic Blend 15w40
6. Shell Rotella-T 15w40 (my personal favorite)
7. SuperTech 2000 (WalMart) 15w40
8. Valvoline All Fleet 15w40
9. Castrol Syntec Blend Truck and 4X4 15w40

One added note: These oils are much cheaper than the oil that says "Motorcycle Specific" 15W40 from $5.99 to $14.00 a quart. Trust me on this one, it's the same stuff. You are just paying for a fancy label saying "Motorcycle Specific". Of course, then again, it's your money.

Added Note 6/13/17:
From the land of OZ. Yes Dorothy, Oil does have a shelf life.

Engine oil / Motor oil Shelf Life.

"Typically, the question is along the lines of "GenericAutoSuperStore are having a sale on WickedlySlippy Brand synthetic oil. If I buy it now, how long can I keep if before I use it?"

In general, liquid lubricants (ie. oils, not greases) will remain intact for a number of years. The main factor affecting the life of the oil is the storage condition for the products. Exposure to extreme temperature changes, and moisture will reduce the shelf life of the lubricants. (an increase of 10°C doubles oxidation which halves the shelf life) ie. don't leave it in the sun with the lid off. Best to keep them sealed and unopened.

Technically, engine oils have shelf lives of four to five years. However, as years pass, unused engine oils can become obsolete and fail to meet the technical requirements of current engines. The specs get updated regularly based on new scientific testing procedures and engine requirements. But this is only really a concern for owners of brand new cars who still have engine oil bought for the previous car. An oil that is a number of years old might not be formulated to meet the requirements set for the newer engine.

If an unopened container of engine oil is more than three years old, read the labels to make sure they meet the latest industry standards. If they do meet the current standards, it's wise to take the extra precaution of obtaining oil analysis before using them. An oil analysis will check for key properties of the oil and ensure that it still meets the original manufacturing specs. Of course the cost of getting an analysis done on old oil is probably going to outweigh going and buying fresh stuff. So it's a double-edged sword.
As a general rule, the simpler the oil formulation, the longer the shelf life. The following is a guideline under protected conditions - indoors at about 20°C 68°F:
Product Shelf Life
Base Oils, Process Oils 3 years
Hydraulic Oils, Compressor Oils, General Purpose Lubricating Oils 2 years
Engine Oils and Transmission Oils 3 years
Industrial and Automotive Gear Oils 2 years
Metal Working and Cutting Oils 1 year

The following are signs of storage instability in a lubricant:

- Settling out of the additives as a gel or sticky liquid
- Floc or haze
- Precipitates/solid material
- Colour change or haziness

Water contamination in a lubricant can be detected by a "milky" appearance of the product."

Might be a good idea when buying large quantities of oil on sale that you write the date purchased on the bottles.
ViragoJoe
1996 XV1100SH Virago Special
"Never ride faster than your Guardian Angel can fly!!"
;)

Schu
Posts: 58
Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 7:13 pm
Location: Marine City MI
What Virago you Own: 1995 XV1100 (sold)
1976 DT175
1975 DT400
1975 DT250 (2)
1975 DT175
1975 DT125
1975 DT100
1975 GT80
1974 DT360
1974 Z50
1972 JT60 (2)
1971 JT60
1971 CT175
1970 CT175
2017 SCR950

Re: OIL and ZDDP - FLAT TAPPET ENGINES

Post by Schu » Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:23 pm

Joe,
Thanks again for sharing your vast knowledge on how little we can spend on various products and still meet the minimum requirements. Nobody does it better.
But trust me on this, if you want to exceed the minimum requirements it will come at a higher price and it will have a fancy label.

Where did all these worms come from?

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ViragoJoe
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Re: OIL and ZDDP - FLAT TAPPET ENGINES

Post by ViragoJoe » Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:12 am

Schu wrote:Joe,
Thanks again for sharing your vast knowledge on how little we can spend on various products and still meet the minimum requirements. Nobody does it better.
But trust me on this, if you want to exceed the minimum requirements it will come at a higher price and it will have a fancy label.

Where did all these worms come from?
Bill,
Worms are opinions folks have on what they think the best oils are without doing research to gather facts.

Below is an example of an expensive label, I would say.

$7.99 a quart as of this writing:
LUCAS OIL LABEL.jpg
Same as Rotella T (SM/SL/SJ)
$12.49 per gallon (4 quarts) $3.12 a quart as of this writing. So, using Lucas oil it will cost you $4.87 more per quart.
Click on picture to enlarge.
ROTELLA.jpg
To increase ZDDP concentration, just add STP or ZDDP additive to the oil.
Oil change with filter for our 1100's (capacity is 3.3 quarts) per Factory Manual.
So, in my case: I pour in 3 quarts of Rotella T and the .3 qt. (9.6 oz's) remaining. I add in STP to increase the ZDDP concentration.

API SERVICE CLASSIFICATIONS FROM THE BEGINNING:
http://www.pqiamerica.com/apiserviceclass.htm

Here's what Hemmings has to say:

Hemmings Daily (The worlds classic car news source)
https://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/201 ... r-engines/
ViragoJoe
1996 XV1100SH Virago Special
"Never ride faster than your Guardian Angel can fly!!"
;)

Schu
Posts: 58
Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 7:13 pm
Location: Marine City MI
What Virago you Own: 1995 XV1100 (sold)
1976 DT175
1975 DT400
1975 DT250 (2)
1975 DT175
1975 DT125
1975 DT100
1975 GT80
1974 DT360
1974 Z50
1972 JT60 (2)
1971 JT60
1971 CT175
1970 CT175
2017 SCR950

Re: OIL and ZDDP - FLAT TAPPET ENGINES

Post by Schu » Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:07 pm

I agree with your research. I can even show you a brand new V8 camshaft that I ruined from using modern oil on a flat tappet valve train. It took less than 250 miles to round off two lobes and cup the bottom of the lifters. Unfortunately I did my research after the fact. I now run valvoline racing oil with break in oil additive from Comps Cams in my Chevelle. $$$. The Virago is loaded with Rotella and STP, although I will try something different on the next oil change. I don't like STP. I question if it really mixes with the oil or if it simply lays in the sump.

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ViragoJoe
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Re: OIL and ZDDP - FLAT TAPPET ENGINES

Post by ViragoJoe » Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:52 pm

Schu wrote:I agree with your research. I can even show you a brand new V8 camshaft that I ruined from using modern oil on a flat tappet valve train. It took less than 250 miles to round off two lobes and cup the bottom of the lifters. Unfortunately I did my research after the fact. I now run valvoline racing oil with break in oil additive from Comps Cams in my Chevelle. $$$. The Virago is loaded with Rotella and STP, although I will try something different on the next oil change. I don't like STP. I question if it really mixes with the oil or if it simply lays in the sump.
Yup, STP mixes with the oil. With the crank shaft whirling around down there in the sump and the oil pump pumping the oil through the engine it wouldn't stay on the bottom of the sump for very long. Here's a sure fire test. Pour some oil into a transparent or translucent plastic container, and/or a small glass jar. Then add some STP. They should start to blend together almost instantly. Take an object something small enough to mix the oil and STP. Then let it sit to see if the STP separates and rests on the bottom of the container. They shouldn't separate. STP stands for "Scientifically Treated Petroleum" They're both petroleum based. Not like water and gasoline. If you mix them, eventually the water will separate from the gas and settle on the bottom. The water is heavier.
ViragoJoe
1996 XV1100SH Virago Special
"Never ride faster than your Guardian Angel can fly!!"
;)

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MAK
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:10 pm
Location: Atlanta West
What Virago you Own: 1997 XV1100

Re: OIL and ZDDP - FLAT TAPPET ENGINES [INFO]

Post by MAK » Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:08 pm

ViragoJoe

When I do a search on the Rotella Oil you mention I come up with a Heavy Duty Diesel version. Is this the same oil that you a talking about?

https://rotella.shell.com/en_us/product ... r-oil.html
MAK
Long time Yamaha rider with a big gap in between riding...
1st Bike - Yamaha XJ650G Maxim 1 1980
Current Bike - Yamaha XV1100 Virago 1997


“Remember that happiness is a way of travel – not a destination.” -Roy M. Goodman

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ViragoJoe
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What Virago you Own: 1996 Virago Special XV1100SH
"Never ride faster than your Guardian Angel can fly!!"

Re: OIL and ZDDP - FLAT TAPPET ENGINES [INFO]

Post by ViragoJoe » Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:24 pm

MAK wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:08 pm
ViragoJoe

When I do a search on the Rotella Oil you mention I come up with a Heavy Duty Diesel version. Is this the same oil that you are talking about?

https://rotella.shell.com/en_us/product ... r-oil.html
YUP! Yes sir, that's the stuff!! Except, I don't use the Synthetic. I use the straight Dino juice 15W40.
Rotella 15W40.jpeg

I change my oil often, so it isn't in my bike long enough to really break down. I can buy 3 gallons for the price of 1 gallon of synthetics.

Keeping the oil clean is the secret of engine life longevity.
ViragoJoe
1996 XV1100SH Virago Special
"Never ride faster than your Guardian Angel can fly!!"
;)

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